Holly in XIII??? (or the special)

Discussion in 'RED DWARF: THE 2020 SPECIAL' started by Asclepius, May 17, 2018.

  1. Ant E

    Ant E Science Officer

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    Thank you for your glowing review
     
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  2. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I lol'd (on a train).
     
  3. Pembers

    Pembers Console Officer

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    I’m on a train too.
     
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  4. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Currently loling on a train at @Pembers
     
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  5. Eddiebadassdavis

    Eddiebadassdavis Supply Officer

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    Doug did test on Red Dwarf BTE.

    To see if people wanted more Dwarf, and it seemed to work
     
  6. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    Well obviously this could end up happening to RD too and we will never see another entire 6 half hour episode series again. It is quite possible as the announcement of a series 13 after 2 years without new Red Dwarf is what was expected really rather than a special.

    But still if it does turn out this way and there are no more full series, then if Doug can pull it off this time (the long form RD) another special or two after this would be fine and hey ho pip and dandy too IMHO! Just have to see what happens and really enjoy what we have got for now!
     
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  7. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    That's true but one thing I would mention is BtE was originally broadcast as a three 20 or so (23?) minute episode mini-series whereas this time it will all be shown as an entire show on one night. I suppose that is a subtle difference, however as on the BtE Blu-ray there is the whole director's cut.

    Still, BtE although okay, overall is the weakest Red Dwarf (mini)-series IMHO and I have more faith in him getting it right this time as he has had the experience of writing the more Dwarfy and superior series 10-12 since then and crucially this time there is a studio audience that the Dwarfers can bounce off and provide a great comedy atmosphere!
     
  8. ldsbonweb1

    ldsbonweb1 Third Technician

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    I just hope movie is going to be good as series 12.
     
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  9. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I hope its better than 12. don't have much faith though. i feel like i seen the full potential of the show back in the 90s and seen the Dougs best efforts in trying to recapture that in the dave era to mixed to messy success
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  10. ldsbonweb1

    ldsbonweb1 Third Technician

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    Well yes. But season 12 did surprise me positively. I hope they will keep te quality we like
     
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  11. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    I'm just hoping that Doug manages to take full advantage of the extended episode length he's been given to create something really special. It's a chance for Red Dwarf to do something more epic and amazing than before.
     
  12. Ant E

    Ant E Science Officer

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    How much does Doug owe you for your comedy consultancy services? :roll:
     
  13. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Lets hope its better than back to earth. Doug had over an hour to tell a story and somehow it felt disjointed compared to say Back to Reallity that was only half-hour. the whole earth story and Joy squid aspect does not make sense together. especially when you compare it to BTR where by the end of the episode you could see why everything that happened had happened the way it did. while BTE was just more a story with a Joy squid reset button.

    Doug having alot of screentime to work doesn't always mean he can make a tight story. it just means he has more time to throw in loads of different things and keep audiences on a rollercoaster ride to hopefully not notice the glaring holes.
     
  14. Asclepius

    Asclepius Console Officer

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    Well, all the multi-part episodes were rubbish, but Back to Earth was the best of them. The multi-part episodes in series VIII were bad not because of the running time, but because the writing in VIII was bad generally.
     
  15. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    Forget about those posts where I stated that this 2020 special is the first time Doug has ever done one. Eddie is right...although BtE was broadcast in 3 separate 23 mins episodes, on the release disc it was shown completely in one director's cut. So although Doug states he wants to experiment with the format (again) and that is why he did not commit to producing two 1 and a half hour specials, clearly he has tried this previously with significant success ratings wise but not genuinely effective critically.

    BtE - like I said earlier - is okay to me most times I re-watch it but it is the least strong RD ever...the story is ambitious and okay but there is a distinct lack of humour and too much emphasis on drama.

    But still - also like I commented previously - I have a bit more confidence this time because really with the 2009 special/s Doug was getting himself back onto the writing bicycle again after a decade devoid of RD and - although some aren't keen and I too feel like the show's very peak will always be series 2-6 - there has been the much superior series 10-12 since and 11 and 12 have a genuine feel of the vintage years to me.

    I wonder in terms of the longer episodes that a running length of up to 40 minutes is best like a few of them were. Although Tikka to Ride was by far the strongest, an episode like Holoship with its great deleted scenes could potentially even be better as a 40 minutes piece if they had made an Xtended version of it.

    Still although not 100% at his best - and the best Red Dwarf has obviously always been in a half hour slot because that is its typical length - Doug has mostly got his writing muse back IMHO and crucially there is - also unlike 2009 - a studio audience this time so let's anticipate what we are getting for now and give it a fair chance next year!
     
  16. Ant E

    Ant E Science Officer

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    I really liked back to earth. Never understood the hate for it.

    also I’ve just re watched series 12 and found it quite poor. Series 11 was far superior!
     
  17. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Holoship had a fair amount of deleted material. but alot of that material was just more substance to the love story, right? i don't know whether not having it hurt the episode though. i think they managed to find a good balance there for the final product. this is something i do not think Doug does well these days. which is probably why Doug will be in his element with a 2 hour story. because if he wants 6 subplots and 4 sketches, he can have 6 subplots and 4 sketches.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  18. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Console Officer

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    I thought BTE was very cheesey, I mean all that Coronation Street stuff was awful. The general idea was ok.
    I do agree about Series 12 though, when it aired I thought it was very good but watched it all again last week and thought not a lot of it while series 11 I can watch again no problem.
     
  19. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    BTE like I said had an okay plot but a distinct lack of genuine humour so while it is okay, it is the weakest RD for me.

    Series 11 is my favourite out of the 2 back-to-back series a few years ago, but I still feel series 12 is virtually as excellent. Skipper is the best and a sensational way for RD to leave our screens for another 2-3 years, while unlike some other fans I would give Cured and Skipper nines out of ten as ratings. Cured feels to me like a dark but highly funny - a real skill - series 5-type episode while Siliconia is possibly the best looking episode made of RD so far and the ending is fine as long as you accept it as a simple but resounding Russell T Davies deus-ex-machina one!

    Meanwhile, although Timewave is the least good show of the twelve 2016-17 episodes, I still like it despite its issues. Mechocracy - while perhaps not 100% vintage - is another episode that harks back to classic RD with some welcome nostalgia but I must give a special mention to M-Corp this time. When I reached this penultimate episode of my full Dwarfathon back in the winter at the beginning of this year, I don't know whether it was because I was updating my windows installation before watching it and that put me in the right mood, but I really enjoyed it this time. With its very sophisticated sci-fi story, it again harks back to the early 90s and there is sufficient humour as well. But the main thing is it is so tightly plotted and whereas 2 years ago on first broadcast it did not have much affect on me, this year it has gone up to a rating of 8.75 out of 10 and I found it thoroughly enjoyable. Those scenes with Lister isolated conveyed the 1st series while the ending - although I am aware some weren't keen - was amazing with the recalling of part of the Back to Reality pay off. In fact its very final scene with Lister singing the Ganymede and Titan song could have meant that it could have been the final show of series 12 and it would have deserved to be, it's just that Skipper was even more exceptional.

    Although series 11 is the finest, series 12 is virtually the same in quality and I really enjoy it too as a companion piece and IMHO it is definitely worthwhile.
     
  20. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    TBH, I last watched the deleted scenes of Holoship a few years ago so I can't remember them totally but from what I can recall they were good. You are right Holoship is an incredible episode as it is, it's just if they had been doing the format at the time then an Xtended version might have been good too at some point alongside.

    Still a lot of those shows during the series 2-6 glory days were so much better with their deleted scenes excised as I can remember some that were simply low quality padding so that obviously implies that RD is best in its usual 30 minutes format and you are right that Doug and Rob combined had the knack then for providing the best editing for the final version.

    But still although the long-form RD has not been phenomenal in the past let's give it a truly fair chance and look forward to it, as we are not getting the typical 6 half hour episode series for now at the very least.
     

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